Half banana

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Posts by Half banana

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  12

  Tales from the Special Convention in Helsinki

  by internationalfader in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i created a new account since i didn't want anybody to be able to trace this back to me based on my other posts.

  i was an international delegate at the special convention in helsinki.

  i am an awake pioneer.

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  Half banana

  International fader...an "awake pioneer"... what an interesting category!

  Much enjoyed your report.
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  41

  Convention Weirdness

  by BlackWolf in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well i just got back from 3 days in hell, and geez was this convention strange or what?

  im sure someone's probably made a topic about this already but i can't believe that there weren't any new releases besides the movies.

  has that ever happened before?

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  Half banana

  A doomsday cult just has to be turning up the pressure all the time. The bunker idea and total dependence on the leaders "whether it makes sense or not" seems to characterise the later stages in the life of such a cult.

  In reality it is the cult itself and not "the system of things" which is doomed... and so at the end, like David Koresh at Waco, a siege mentality has to eventually be adopted as a final act of defiance to the world and as a demonstration to the faithful that their myth is coming true. It is an unsettling time for believers.

  ........................ get out while you still can!
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  18

  The Divine Son of God, God Incarnate, Lord, Redeemer, and Saviour of the World

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  before jesus was born or even if he had never existed—another human being was already proclaimed son of god and, indeed, god incarnate within the same first common-era century and within the same mediterranean world.

  in fact, almost all the sacred terms and solemn titles that we might think of as christian creations or even pauline inventions were already associated with caesar augustus, the first undisputed ruler of the roman empire, from 31 bce to 14 ce.. augustus was divine, son of god, god, and god from god.

  he was lord, liberator, redeemer, and savior of the world—not just of italy or the mediterranean, mind you, but of the entire inhabited earth.

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  Half banana

  FTS, sorry, I like to be provocative...it would be more transparently correct to speak of the syncretism which was forged under Constantine the Great as a fusion of contemporary “christian” beliefs. However I wanted to highlight the paradox that the doctrinal basis of these early sects of Christianity was then only recently and resolutely drawn from pagan belief... outstandingly so was the long pre-Christian history of the Christ figure himself. Even Constantine kept the Solar Invictus (unconquered Sun) image on his coinage up until about 320CE well after his purported conversion to Christianity. This was in fact a pivotal teaching of solar theology at the root of the Christ myth back in pagan antiquity, which had visible echoes in early Christian iconography.

  Think of any doctrine or NT story; it is likely that it has a pagan or a Gnostic antecedent. Odd intrusions into the NT text such as “I am the true vine” and “...upon this rock, I will establish my church” are tangible demonstrations of very pointed and specific gestures to existing cults, to that of Dionysus in the first case and Mithras in the second. Exotic words offered as a sop to the holders of these essential non-Jesuist doctrines in the on-going process of Roman Catholic syncretism; working in the familiar Roman imperial political manner of 'inclusion and assimilation'. For the sake of retaining their temple authority, It became prudent for cult leaders to make the move towards the teachings of the Imperial Roman Church.

  The fact is there is little authoritative literature if any on the subject and hence it is not on the general scholar’s radar. The whole episode of forced conformity had to be covered up and that could only be done effectively through Imperial agency to start with. Later with the dilution of Roman power after Theodosius the Church itself became so powerful it could lead the anti paganism drive.

  Overall I still cannot but think that Constantine was ever playing the role of emperor. He had his religious advisers such as Hosius and he had his publicists such as Lactantius and Eusebius but religion was for him an instrument of state. His nearly life-long tolerance of Roman cults and his ineffectual and fumbling attempts at directing the bishops towards doctrinal unison showed his heart was not in the business of Jesus-Christianity, as did his deathbed baptism. It was some of his offspring who took up the Christian banner and ran with it.
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  21

  The identity of "The Faithful and Discreet Slave", solved - I think.

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  “who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

  - matthew 24:45. let's be honest, the faithful and discreet slave logically cannot refer to any and every christian.

  this is not merely an encouragement for all christians to prove themselves faithful and discreet.

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  Half banana

  Spelling: exist not exit! Groups which exist in the modern world.
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  21

  The identity of "The Faithful and Discreet Slave", solved - I think.

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  “who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

  - matthew 24:45. let's be honest, the faithful and discreet slave logically cannot refer to any and every christian.

  this is not merely an encouragement for all christians to prove themselves faithful and discreet.

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  Half banana

  Island man, I think that the failure of Jesus'words foretelling the 'end of the system of things' in the first century disqualifies any credibility in extending or applying the parable to a future time. Prophecy has no value except for empowering the bearers and misleading the gullible.

  I agree with you Brokeback, the words are very unlikely to be kosher in the first place.

  It is a parable about the integrity of a lowly person put in charge of other humble workers, so that he does his duty even during the absence of the master of the house so that things will always function properly. It is about the integrity of the elevated servant not to be found with egg on his face at his master's return. This being said in the context of a prophecy of catastrophic destruction to the Jewish nation ("Let those in Judea flee to the hills") and deliverance by a heavenly master.

  When the words were written, Judea was fully Romanised including, I believe there were public baths at that time in Sepphoris in Galilee and the Judaic religious life too was skewed towards the Roman not always the formidably strict separateness of Jewish tradition, they could enjoy the benefits of a developed civilization. The only households described in the illustration would probably have been Roman patricians who in Judea would have kept slaves who were really household servants.

  The Watchtower has always been a Bible quoting religion, it foolishly believes and teaches that the scriptures have such authority that all that is needed is to quote a verse or two to establish a matter. In practice it adds its own directive on the verses to suit its cultic purpose. Its folly has always been to interpret scripture as if it referred to blocks of people or specific groups which exit in the modern world. This habit was something Rutherford used in his diatribes, significantly from the fascist era and it has continued in the mentality of the govenors of Jehovah's Witnesses ever since.

  It suits their interest to narcissistically imply themselves in their role now or in the future as predicted by Jesus' words fabling a discreet servant who feeds the other household staff at the right time.

  The Watchtower has proved itself to be the most indiscreet serving body and has dispensed appalling, opinionated spiritual food misleading millions and never once getting the timing right.

  What does that say? Wrong food for the wrong time, or even if it were argued to be right food... it has always been for the wrong time! It says that even if the scripture was intended to pinpoint a 'group' it most clearly could not apply to them.
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  9

  The Borg and the bible, don't eat blood! Jesus, eat my blood! WTF?

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your thoughts , and is in it interesting how much jesus teachings seem to contradict the jewish god jehovah.

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  Half banana

  Jesus Christianity to get off the ground, apart from Judaism it had to please lots of people holding diverse beliefs. To gain ascendency it had to encompass among other cults, the Roman favourite Mithras.

  In Mithraism the blood of the Savior, the Great Shepherd, was commemorated by an annual ritual of partaking of symbolic bread (or cakes) and wine well before christianity adopted it. The symbolism of blood to the Romans was cleansing and strength and at the initiation ceremony the novice was placed under a grill in the dark Mithraeum (subterranean windowless church) and the hot blood from a dying sacrificial bull rained down on him some of which he was obliged to drink as it fell.

  Inscribed in the Mithraic temple which occupies the catacombs under the Vatican today is the pre-Christian text, "Whosoever does not drink of my body and eat of my flesh, the same will not be with me in paradise".

  So I agree with you Crazyguy that for the sake of harmonisation of the Jewish religion with its monotheism and blood prohibition, and the other competing cults, the early Jesus movement had to make many compromises. It is most interesting to see how the two divergent views on blood were accommodated. The Jew would still be offended by drinking blood but the Roman would accept the idea from familiarity.

  Paul did a sterling job in the letter to the Hebrews to rationalise the different strands of dogma.

  Without the Jesus myth and Constantine's mother Helena having adopted the cult, the dominant Roman religion would probably have ended up in a Dionysian mould...but this cult too had to be absorbed for Jesus Christianity to become the catholic or universal faith, Dionysus contributing the expression "The true vine", he turned water into wine at a wedding feast, was born a virgin son of God and was crucified for the sake of sinful mankind. Makes you think!
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  8

  Lurking JWs, if you're to love Jesus more than family, does it make sense to withhold family to coerce persons to return to Jesus?

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jesus said that his true disciples would love him more than family.

  (matthew 10:37) therefore, ex-jws worthy of reinstatement should be returning because they love jesus more than family - not because of wanting to restore family association.

  if they truly love jesus more than family they would still return despite their family continuing to communicate with them, because they will value their relationship with jesus as a prize to be attained above and beyond their relationship with their family.

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  Half banana

  Darth F, in the real world as opposed to a hospital for the severely troubled, what person is it who demands that his audience should place him; the speaker, as being of more importance than members of their own family?

  Jesus and his sayings are a scam. I appreciate this is incendiary but it is time people made a proper examination of why early Christian propaganda was written down in the first place and made sacred. I'm saying this so as not to be beguiled by the positive and attractive teachings found in the Bible.

  Step further back and see the powerplay at work.
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  18

  sorry to bother just saying hello 

  by Lostsoul123 in

  1. social
  2. family

  hi.

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  Half banana

  Hello Lostsoul, good of you to drop in...hope to hear your story soon!
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  8

  Lurking JWs, if you're to love Jesus more than family, does it make sense to withhold family to coerce persons to return to Jesus?

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jesus said that his true disciples would love him more than family.

  (matthew 10:37) therefore, ex-jws worthy of reinstatement should be returning because they love jesus more than family - not because of wanting to restore family association.

  if they truly love jesus more than family they would still return despite their family continuing to communicate with them, because they will value their relationship with jesus as a prize to be attained above and beyond their relationship with their family.

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  Half banana

  Ok, I always take a step backwards to look at a situation but really who has the right to demand the hideous words Jesus is supposed to have said at Mat.10;37?

  Islandman, you have put your finger on a matter which demonstrates the irrational demands and cultic nature of the Christian religion which expose the original methods of control and conformity which are further exploited by JWs today.

  Who, tell me, in good faith demand that you devote your life to an individual other than from your family and place their interests above your needs and those of your family?

  What man could demand this?

  Only a cult leader talks about "true disciples". Only cults use shunning as an instrument for punishing the not so zealous for the sake of avoiding religious contamination.

  The words put into Jesus’ mouth in the scriptures are nothing less than the desperate ravings of a religious fanatic seeking total control.

  So in answer to your question are JWs using family association to lure back the erring individual? Indeed they are using the warmth and strength of family above the love of Jesus... the very thing he said not to do.
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  24

  Dunkin Donut style KH

  by GreenhornChristian in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  has anyone seen one of the new design kh's and taken pics?

  i'm curious to see.

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  Half banana

  I agree with your post Pete Zahut.

  When your religion goes stale and does not deliver the goods and the members start leaving in droves... what happens to the real estate and stocks and shares? Who benefits I wonder?

  If you reckon that there are around 107,000 congregations of JWs worldwide, (it used to be 114,000 two or three years ago) one half of the congs have a KH (through sharing) that makes it about 50,000 KHs and say half of these worldwide must be worth on average about $100,000 each. Therefore (25k x 100k) about $2.5 billion.

  It was in 1986 when the WT took over the ownership of all the KHs worldwide. In doing so they became, to use their own disparaging word an "organized" religion. The sale value of the property takeover by my rough calculation above... is a pretty investment coup don’t you think? Or was it theft?

  So do the new industrial style units built on saleable land make for a fail-safe investment for the WTBTS?

  Or is it a Freudian impulse to convert the remaining wealth into capital resources for when humankind stop believing in nasty religions or Watchtower paranoia?

  Is it a drive to secure the old age retirement fund for the “heavenly princes” when the true believers have stopped believing truly?